Barely Legal: Sports Betting Goes Mainstream

Bart Winkler
Wednesday, September 6th
Should sports betting be legal? It's a conversation that has been debated to death but one that could soon be resolved. Brett Smiley of joins Bart Winkler to talk about how it may be legal to bet on sports in a stadium near you in the next three years, if not much much sooner.

Plus, Bart chats with author of Dueling with Kings, Daniel Barbarisi. The former Yankees beat writer tried his hand at daily fantasy sports and eventually was (quite) successful, but he had to go deep into the world of daily fantasy sharks to do it. But if sports betting is still illegal, how are daily fantasy sports allowed in the first place?

Enjoy this podcast with two great guests and make sure to check out for updates on the fight to make sports gambling legalized, as well as Daniel Barbarisi's book Dueling with Kings, a great read as the daily fantasy sports calendar heats up!

Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

Thanks her listening to another episode of the wings things podcast. We've been talking a lot of head about very specific things this summer whether it was the show Big Brother which has been bad. Or the WWE. Which actually Cody grand. Not producer check in winkle is gonna take over. PW WE podcasts you can check that out at 1057 FM the fan dot com right here on the app as well. And just look for the WWE podcast. Under the producers tag so still all the content there Cody grant though has taken that over some injury checked. That out we talk about the WWE OK with the NFL coming up. This weekend a couple of different ways that we want to look at batting. Chuck and myself on the show chuck and white collar. We make actual bets on the program we go through the lines of every game and you're seeing ESPN trying to balance doing. They're college football TV coverage one is giving you the lines is a lot of things going out so. The next few minutes here will talk to Andrew Barbary C. Who wrote the book dueling with kings from the daily fantasy sports perspective. How this is able to be illegal. Despite all signs saying it shouldn't be he wrote a book on what it was like in depth actually. Became one of these remarks are these. These sharks are sharks are. Some combination of that word I want a ton of money playing hockey a sport that he knew nothing embodied was the Yankees beat writer. And got in that world through hockey sold tactic hammy here in a little bit. But first or tied to Brett smiley he along with Jimmy Shapiro from ball's not they've got a new site out called sports handled act cop. And it talks a lot about sports betting and how. It won't just be through sites like ball Bada and and and in Vegas it will be legalized. Some day at some point is something that we talk about. On the morning show quite a bit so let's bring a man Brett smiley. With sports handled back count sports betting. This at some point Brad that this is going to be illegal we're just talking about it on Wednesday show. That it's there you'll be able to do it in stadiums. And you'll be able to do I mean watching ESPN college football coverage over the weekend. They kind of told the line of again this is college but here's the line for the game. Flat out win win are we looking at legalized sports betting in America. Put a little bit doesn't act Errol let me start with the land is so I think it's gonna be. In the next. 12. To three years that the biggest best chance for. Britain become legalized. In the U Utley in the city New Jersey is it supreme court of New Jersey has any. They've had a ten year quest. Against the league and at a case like that senators and Supreme Court and a spate prevail. That the oral arguments of the sometime in all the early next year the decision. Should come Manila who got eighteen now at that prevailed in the majors in will be the first set to jump at it and then there's a lot of others state that. Legislation teed up you know pick just the to a in the next here meaning the beginning of 2019. Depends on your state and that. Sought a kind of be like. The legalization of marijuana maybe or some some states say yes and in some governors are again statin. We might be in a state by state basis here before everybody finally says yes. Absolutely I mean these these measures will be on the ballot at what they added for marijuana. The other a lot of states. That ad in the definitely you know recreational he would. But watching and Massachusetts. Colorado so. Yeah those those development has come up and people go and legislators. Hopefully well act according to the people well. What would be our what has been do you think. As far as the league's golden the NFL NBA MLB. What's been their biggest reason for this not to be legal because when you look at it objectively. There's a lot of ways that not only they can profit off of that but it would create even more interest in the game I think that they can. They can walk the line and say. Well you know we don't wanna be responsible if somebody takes it too far or you have the Pete Rose situation he never wanna see that but. I think those cases are. Our may be few and far between that overall leagues I would think would want this to be passed. Absolutely I think if you ask them off the record if the truth serum they would admit that they know that. It is beneficial to increase TV ratings which has banned. I'm concerned but the main reason that. It's not and is. In a nutshell the integrity of the game and that's and that's afraid the entry back in the first commissioners sports Kennesaw mountain Landis. We put in that position after the black Sox scandal. And that that that that brain that all added new former NFL commissioner used. In 1992 when that the law. Bad and sports betting at that in Nevada. Is that and I mean that torch has been carried out by Roger Goodell and we agree and probably Muster listeners that it hypocritical. Especially in light of you know the upcoming move to Las Vegas selecting bet that. Argument is crumbling down and that's where we're seeing more movement. It's just so weird the last couple years watching how quickly and may be too quickly. The league's work to embrace the daily fantasy sites like Samuel draft kings and the other ones that have come and gone with all the ads and although. The merchandise everywhere in the of the signs in the stadium and usually they tell our players they camp player but keep these guys are in fantasy leagues in all it's is it seems like. That was the sign for me that yeah they want ads but they do is they have to again as we've been talking kind of toe that line. Yeah I I totally agree I think that's one of the major driving forces here. As well you got you got Robert Kraft and Jerry Jones suited up maybe in the two most prominent. Owners in the NFL are are personally invested. In the entity and nobody at that I'd. If you wanna play that good but it definitely gambling habit down political entity that is the law. That differentiate between Steele and and wagering but. I think most rational people would agree that if gambling. I mean I lost. Several grand once Kirk hit that in an illusion that from a from. From scale I lost their from betting money to try to win the more money. I'm daily fantasy sports and it's just that one little is that we sayings is that one. That one little loophole that makes that legal 'cause everybody does and promotes it. Right yet there they found Alou followed the 2006 law that. I think we've aimed at. Preventing financial institutions from enabling betting with. Our shores that the land the language get its say you react GA here. To get out announced yet but the law and they later exploited it in the ensuing years and continued it is now. But that they found a way to make some money up and I and I think that's gonna happen. With sports betting. Brett smiley here are going sings podcasts wanna find seven a from the fan back com. You look over seas on big soccer guy and I think the west ham is the team that I like and they've got a bad way right on their jerseys they've got. They've got places in the stadium. Where you can you can bet on the games. If this and when this is adapted in the United States that you can bet on games. How much is this fan experience going to be different for people that wanna bet that I would assume. You can go to the major sites then and placed bets that B kiosk set up and stadiums are these the kind of things that we'll see. In the minors saying that in Europe say they turned off the yacht once again began. If you read differently and I have I think they're grappling with and now I'm up they get deciding whether. They want to allow you know those mobile apps that won't make it as an out inside this stadium. And that apparently changed. The experience in bed but ultimately you know people will be able Tibet through. A legal entity that is operated by the state and the houses should be blatant and has greater integrity and in the mean that they're using now which is offshore that are outside the mr. addiction and maybe some local book these two aren't exactly reputable. Now at some points I mean once this is legal. And they can do everything. I against him but there will be an athlete dead dead dead place there will be a coach or somebody Europe. Equipment manager that puts money down how do you prevent that from happening if you can. I database. Of names that the can be shared. Interstate between boats and the console that I mean right now we could very well be having athletes and coaches and trainers making these. They waiters completely outside of the the purview the US law you know disputing. I'm not short town where they were frankly they don't really care so I I think. It is gun you know which in the US and then and is regulated and line movements are monitors into greater chance that we can catch some sort of you know and I'm like that. His weird it's weird to me how we. As a society. Will cross a line and just say something's acceptable or not like. You're you're seeing it happen with marijuana as I said and you've seen it happen with the marriage for equality over the years and the example values for sports. Is alcohol I mean during the game you're inundated with. With commercials for beer and all this other different stuff and there's restaurants its economy here and and drink our beer and enjoy our wings and then. Have a lot of beer here and then you get in I got to drive armory had drive home from your buddies. With alcohol I don't ever hear the NFL being worried that. Because of them because of their promotions because people are drinking during the games I never hear then saying well we don't wanna be responsible when something like that happens. But I don't know when that line will cross because it's. If a guy spends a bunch of money betting on the game and then such a you know he spirals out of control because of that. The league doesn't wanna be responsible for that but. Is it not hypocritical when you see it with wit alcohol. It typically at a critical look at who would be the with the sport in the talking about the integrity of the game. But he wanted to outlet in stadium experience I mean I've been doing that gained entry you have that the number one cause. I'll fight send. People spilling beer and and any violence. And arguments in baton is alcohol it was getting hammered not knowing elements are not caring nine Intel is inside the stadium but they're OK with that against. That's the big money sponsor and that the out all. Entities now. The NFL it definitely accustomed only hypocrite hypocritical positions and they won't even allow that leads and they record Richard Sherman when the doubt to. Two indeed sponsors for turning out on that day insists the level of hypocrisy is high. Right Charles Woodson who are familiar with here edit a vineyard in a wind that he kind. Really start promoting until he retired. And so there is a big level open up a hypocrisy and now on the ledger hockey anything but you did Campion like a Budweiser or Miller Lite commercial. Very interest in so you would say. Bad one to 23 years. You'll be able to legally that. At least in a couple of states are when when are we looking nationwide do you think in your crystal ball. Well people who are really to sit wanna stand up that they check out our web site or and other Aamir closely monitoring. The the Supreme Court case. It's kind of a Super Bowl sports betting. In the courts. It and they and they that's really their priests Saturday and then they're pretty compelling. That. Back easily heard oral argument is on the October terms that means. The arguments will be some time. November December January. I don't think later than temporary and the we'll get a decision. No later than June and that will determine effectively whether. This 1999. Making it into law passed by its constitution on it's it's. Deemed unconstitutional. Then that opened the door and the Jersey way to implement it burst in Atlantic City and other racetracks and then there's a lot of states that are ready to go to. We can edit it for example. California has proposed a constitutional amendment. Mississippi that all over the country. Sports handled dot com is the web site. I have to ask. Can you bet. That the Supreme Court decision anywhere. Sunny I had a conversation with the work with the ice yesterday that does but out. Online is that is that it's possible and European sports book you can bet on it. CDs and the other more popular not sure but that's on the topic I'm gonna go and that a line rectory in the Prius the other day. Guess I was paid minus 200 meters humans. Always look at her anyway get action Brett smiley sports handled back count our thanks. To him I'd Daniel barber EC as we turn from sports betting which at some point will be illegal. To really as we talked about with Brett sports betting that kind of legal now mean. Draft kings and fanned duel this that's a betting. You are betting money to win more money. And there are some. There are some ways around it which make this possible. Daniel barber EC. Road this blog dueling with kings the back story is. Fascinating. He was the Yankees beat writer. Cutting board found out about drafting specifically. And started playing. Baseball I thought I work worry aiming baseball. You should be able to. Should be able to beat everybody I know everything about baseline on more than anybody in the locker room I got access. He got his ass kicked. Was doing poorly. Wing super deep into the world a draft kings. And then that's of the book details the book again. Dueling with kings Danielle this book OK so sometimes we'll get these books now say gallery this thing and it read. You know the back cover and then trying to fake my way they're interviewed at somebody who has played did daily fancy sports since Canada right before the boom. Somebody who. Has been told many times this is the date cash out everything you have now this empires evading enemies to open in fifty the next day. This is a gripping tale of sort of your Immersion. Into this thing and I find it interesting. Really because you started. I mean your beat writer for the Yankees for the longest time. And that Daniels when you kind of that's when you discovered what this old elite fantasy sports world as a buyout. Yeah I mean marketing years you're actually the most people who actually. We're you know I think many people just at a book there was standard pressing team leader. And playing award from the other course that of course. In 2015. Me. Awful things very well and that's what most people are a bit. Apple to the company's drafting and they have boldly in the national car. Go to Bible. You order a law journal. Discovered it around any of the year at. It is super fun but be. It's also created. It seems so big and I actually more people are kind of doesn't talk about this so I decided. And try to go into this thing until every other from inside. It can become one of the big arc of the terrible initial order. Yes I was still with these fish. Are I'd sell fish is basically. Well anybody that that I've set up the play these things you you've played daily fantasy sports the promise there are. As we know is that you can be one of these. They winners now if you do it right. You can win a little bit of money. At the end of the day at the end of your bank account you may be even and you may be up a little bit in May have lost oh what happens is with any thing. There's people they gain intuit and then there's people ahead of the curve so I may have. I may have known about it but I was not. Ahead of the curve in terms of how to make this really a money making an operation because do you think can I wanna set a daily fancy sports lineup. The understanding is just like with your other fantasy leagues you set the line up you know you're good at sports and you being as close as you're to the Yankees in baseball. You think all right there's a lot of potential for me here but what you learn and what you learn in the book and then. The way you track these people down is great to. That there are these formulas there are databases are spread sheets there are systems that will enter in salaries for you and make necessary adjustments. So when you play your one line up. You play your one line of that you took twenty minutes to set you think that you're good to go. There's people that have been working the entire day with scripts setting all this stuff getting it ready and they're the ones winning the 101000 dollars. And you lose Tony box on the night and think well I guess I just didn't have the best lineup that night but it's because there's all these sharks which you you became. It wasn't that people were cheating but it was a bit. In their crushed here trying to destroy each other Christians and scandal. And it created the world where there were really no checks and balances and allow the best player. 21 roughshod over people like me. And so I wouldn't like that I've except I wanna do this until the story of you could do any good at all possible to become one of these sharks without computer algorithms without doing all that. So. You know I went and that you noted try to go on them towards each teacher and live among the biggest and best of the world and you know eventually I would be able. Integration Michael look where we're able to be successful but you know I certainly wouldn't say that I had the average person's experience in the sense that. Doctor it's possible but I also ahead. In burning Ganges in terms of cool I was before this that all of our need to get the kind of mentoring tutelage bit you know most people are not going to be able yet. Raven and as you find out that might not even. Manner because I think like I am not a Sports Radio station and I'm a big sports fan. I covered these teams I can get the lion's tougher everybody else some of these guys that played this stuff. This is purely a numbers thing they don't know how to pronounce these guys' names they don't know it and how what they look like they don't know if there why hater of their black. Or of their rats veterans or their rookies but they know numbers. And we use when you first learned that that's for sure going up against and those are the guys that are beating you. It's a very daunting. But yet I think people are learning that yet people aren't stopping because of Powell. How addicting really games like this czar. Yeah I mean there's no question that it is a lot of all of its very addictive but I certainly sounds very hard to pull yourself away from that you know there's a lot of talk gambling questions that come with that do you know where people are actually giving it to people or so and tons of money at it because. Between the designed that way it it's a lot of fun there are Smart it's there. No need to get lost. Everything between themselves. More than they need initially. This sport and sport though it was gonna carry the day but though. Some degree of masking with a sports. And that you are a combined it is and goes out so we couldn't put. At the start of it you know you have to understand things like. When your application. And light up correlation to really. Do any good at it and so you know over time he became good at those concepts and those things under some of the best people teaching me but. You know that's not what everyone thinks they're good they can get over you know all of our show up and you're gonna without power in certain. Daniel barber racing the book is dueling with kings. You do when you play draft kings fan deal the two big ones. You see the same names. We in the same tournaments now they have since taken steps to they'll show if this guy is. A veteran and or they'll show you but but I mean I handles our next to my name I'm certainly not a winning a ton of money on this thing. You see those names and the way you're able to track down these guys are that was remarkable. Yeah I want any. One of the things I wanted to do was kind of pull the mask off some of this you know and say okay this this person has this is they do it. This is who they are you know many people I talk to says oh during Q sort of absolutely not appointed this is you. You know really try to tell the real story of what's going on your own children these guys we weren't yet in some order or to crackdowns on work. Bureaucracies some really like the attention someone with no part of it but. You know at the end I found them or to be almost momentary interest in people because. They're very Smart even the ones were a little bit more growth oriented so they are still Smart. You know these are this is a very army and the people who were out the top of the and you know if you're not Smart and practicing and playing pretty darn good methods are gonna have trouble here. And you know that's not with the original commercials at they didn't let on to that but yeah I can you talk with the experience I think that seriously and look where. You know frequently if they get the best player in the world those idols who only knows Max salary. It is which is it actually sort only in terms of how he actually took another guy banks in the book. But. When I first. Don't let him aiming at the same experience that they need. Is light years Adams media and you never would also add that ingredient so. Well things are definitely better in terms of showing you a disguised glee good the crush you. It's still a little bit deceptive in the I think actually a pilot fish are not the sharks are. A lot of people's first Immersion way daily fantasy sports. Was the blitz. That the NFL season a couple of years ago out of in the the Tony's fifteen season. Where the commercials were on all the time I mean you would look at a normal commercial break you would be draft kings motor oil fan dual. Fast food and in the same draft kings commercially just saw. And at that point people started think okay. Are right there is there's an interesting component to this in fact it where's the money coming from how are they getting this much money. Is this stuff even legal the fight that draft kings and fan bill in these companies. Daily fantasy sports and had to gone through. The state that you lived it and it's shot a dollar and and there are states that you can't playing you have that when you putting money you have to specify what state you're in a and if you're in the wrong state you're not gonna get it and this is still an ongoing evolving. Legal matter from the fact that is it gambling or is it Matt. Yeah I mean that's that's of the big fight right now it's happening in the legislators in a cross country at that moment. Because these companies that they did. And the target of all kinds of well deserved attention from the media and from. Regulatory agencies because I would ask those questions just mentioned what did this to come out they get so big money on the is that the whole legal. What they. You know speaking to become begin to become subjects of all those inquiries. Became very clear there should be regulatory arm pitchers too much money or not to it's you know it's very much like the idea he treating all that. Exert area that we regularly so when this wasn't that great a lot migrant. Right now I think the industry itself has pulled up. Very impressed lobbying effort actually they've gotten themselves what we've legalized numbers it's. You mentioned there were two New York, New York was the top as the title game they were originally and Bjorkman has built. That legalized them explicitly. And now they're back in business there. Huge victory for the companies but there's a lot of other students at Texas for example where. That battles under way right now. And so that's what they're trying to you know actually get. Legislators across country is okay we're okay with this thing. We think it should be legal but we want to make sure they're protections in place for the average player that you don't have the situation like what I want you talked about where. You know you're getting crushed by the same guys in in in happy at all so that. Out I think it's definitely a better place. But that's mostly because of engine like shut up and be regulatory effort and can be reviewed by themselves. And you Barbary see dueling with canes. I don't want to ruin much of the book as far as the stories and the friendships that you made. By the will when you sell yours here in baseball here based on beat writer. And they're playing based on games are playing football games. And I don't know why it struck me. As shocking as it did Bo you started talking about you are gonna start playing hockey in your hockey. You like covers hockey you don't know much about Mac years it is like a lot of people baseball football basketball. In the hot key to success. Four in a hockey. Was like the end of the six cents to analyze it there's. Ice I I think audibly gas. It is front and yeah and so what I've obviously is because I was in Florida but only that but. I think actually hurt me because I came in a lot of preconceived assumptions and ensure that much more knowledge and I wasn't. I have needed to. Who are literally have learned Shelly and send them to really start blank blank slate to be good at this and so yeah when I wouldn't mind at Torrey canyon. It Judy rader was actually wonderful guy that you goes by the use in the deep and achieved. She says. I'm gonna start you don't choose from scratch and hockey pro like that. That's in the book that and people are eighteen and 94 rings I don't know anything about any. But yeah I thought that was good and it turned up but it was because yes like it. Become very successful. In the Pakistani beat the other day on Saturday we'll meet. Tennessee hockey championship of the world so clearly yeah actually it was certainly the right course of the code of bird by. But yet what has become a huge hockey and directly as a result. And that's what boutiques are banking on it. If they partnered with these companies are gonna care about of Vancouver and Olympic team. At 1 AM on the West Coast finishing out where you're someone from Austin you don't would normally never mention that so I mean I am living proof of that stuff definitely happens. And that's what they're hoping for. Where you're watching airliner incident that late at night think college become a slant when you slide on the line ads and and I was sweating with your tale of how much you're able to win playing hockey I was you know right there which he did a great job in the writing style of I'm keeping everybody engage again the book is doing with kings. Daniel barber EC what are you let the point now where this is your job or war what's your life like now how much are you doing this. I don't you play but no I definitely consider my job and the idea. You know I consider myself storyteller and boy do I got the chance to tell really cool increase Ian is in store year. And it was a very interesting to do this along the way but that my ambition never been to be at yet as though. I I can leg cash said the other night it's at like three bucks and there's you know overall I'm down but you have a night or UN a little bit in your happy. And I I tell myself I'm not gonna play anymore and then I get a free entry. And I think I really like this lineup. And okay output in ten dollars. As far as my friends now I'm. One of those few guys left that are still playing it but mine's very. I do one friend who he did have a big one not like like you guys have been able to him but he had a big enough wind. Where he's been able to play for awhile and what he'll do every night now. I think he plays NBA alive. He'll do half internment and try to win big there. And you do a different line up for for the cash games so that he can win on the 5050s and keep going he's kind of got his method. And we all look at him like is he's a genius. But again compared to the the level of techniques and in the computer simulations the right. I mean how much of that is still relevant where you can you can working nine to five right ending come home essential line up but you have to go against our guys that are setting. Scripps all days that's not happening a lot. I think the scripting verdict and it's not as big of a concern anymore uncertainty out there but not a big deal. It's fortunately you know yeah those are two really really good at what they're doing they're really practiced and you're actually I think that the underrated part of it. Which is that. You're coming home and spending Europe and perhaps an outlet that lineup and those other guys who worked on its mining camp. You know it kind of is the biggest names of the pros have and they put all their time intelligence into it. And everywhere else from showing up and saying you let's have a little fun. And so you're almost playing a different game to some extent I went I. Don't put in the lineups generally speaking unless I have formed by the hour to work. And you know what if you're not doing that you may be setting yourself up for failure in the short term if doing so won't. When you when you need four or five dollars. To dual line up as opposed it just thirty minutes. Without David I mean if you wanna whatever you wanna give away assignment. What do you do in that time consent there's people that I if you tell him if you wanna win you get to see you at the duo of five our line up. And they might think well what am I looking for is five dollars a set this a person lineup that's it's I mean how long. Well it doesn't have to but I just say I'm talking manipulative revival announced that it has been. That every game deserves rigorous analysis scenario that to be you know essentially tested I have my own you got it. That didn't theories that I employee you know I'm not in outgoing person and all but. I really like to go over. All the it was a combination that's a possibility really try to bet the step up on the curriculum around. You know I'm salary analysis nor is the game is different every day you really get to some extent possible and not try to figure that called out and so you know it. There's a lot you can that certainly he can take a lot of time you can really work hard and sometimes I feel like okay that didn't take that long and sometimes they'll feel like O seven pocket agreed that our beaches. These things Alter a lot of different statistical possibilities and I'm not really sure what happened yet so. You know you can put as much time. And a lot of time I was most the time that I'm. Do you think overall. Daily fantasy sports is is good for sports is good for these games 'cause there's there's a lot of positives to it. I mean it gets more attention nine games and you might have people buying the MLB extra innings package to watch pod juries Mariner's. You know and they normally when care but there's also the point where. And Twitter is a big part of it. Yeah give people yelling and athletes. You could do that things that are playing. You give people mad and made it their more looked at as commodities now than they are players of their favorite sports teams. Well I think that you know worker training we're seeing just we're people wanting. Things that didn't used to immediately gratify them to have direct connection you know here there were. Walk of life at this point in the social media things. Technology related things that we all expect. To having individual investment whatever the heck is going on that front as. We are not going to be passive consumers. And I think that's whether that's quarter that is the bigger minds than mine to argue but I think that we are. And I think will be certainly believed that. And the idea that. This is how they are going to keep people's hospitals on their screens typically used to be all about your rights and you know you get contracts and core earnings and you know that things are going different elections. So they are now about how to adjust for this so. I think it's more important general debate and you're gonna he has moved normally I would say toward more European model. Years. But I think how that vote should count yet but I think we're out there so you know in terms of the the good or bad habit I simply just say this when he. So for a normal guy like me. You know attacking you for Tony minutes or so normal guy like me I'm gonna go home the night Allen played some lineups. MD is there I get discouraged though because I I don't have the time I don't have. The methods that you and BP in a Jeep and all these guys have. Ken normal people. Like me. That play can you win. The 101000 dollars K and you win the 100000 dollars continued can you do that without taking the route of being a shark. Like you had to do great wanna write a book about something and then for profit off that as well that that heart rate Korea. And it ticket can get a guy like me go alms and when money or do I had to take your route. And you yes and do I think you're going to tonight now and that's no insult your intelligence. But I mean it's certainly possible but you know what the supplement the 15% of people win. You know that well with it at that point literally. Let you know. You're going in the news as well I think you do look at which is entertainment and supplements to keep you warned me in the games are probably you're gonna watch wonderful he should do it like. You're going in their thinking I'm gonna prop up this every day and make a lot of money in the significantly nuke your. I would tell you is your age because I'm Lester it's incredibly super seriously. You know the idea is that yes you can you can get lucky you can have a delicate line up in the order can afford to buy if it's pretty hard to be consistently profitable and not putting the bill were the owners that sort of you know it actually is possible that which can be done by you know people need to recognize and would think the media in commercials and otherwise. People need to recognize its very heart and it takes a lot you're not just show up and it doesn't work. On man dang at two Summers ago. I Wear two different jobs have an hour apart side drive dewine and then I'd drive to the next on and in that hour. You are also I handle credit card debt at the time. To move that earned the right time to. Be doing this so I'm driving down. And on the drive a mom iPhone. And I'm playing the Tony seven dollar MLB. Draft king and I'm just spending money and spending money we're NN now I think is much better I'll play. You know the five the single entry 32 I'll play fifteen dollars and nine and and in pass on any joint enacted too crazy but it is very easy. To fall into that trap. Well yeah but the experience I mean what you just described I've done that we see in those settings lineups on a dry is going to be like oh well. That's it's a while they only have in the all right but the 27 and hustled spoke at spoke. Expect that I put in the Pitney so you know it starts to snowball the manner. And then the value and you only had put it in the three. And then you're like I should 015 grand sucked in the next day am chasing that money that I never had that there are a lot of that states to. I mean they're even not even happen with professional without in Miami's region with several these guys and I was actually was. Sunday night. And one of the big pros who has accurate dinner and eat. At taken lightly and he put in thousand dollars was obviously a lot of money but for him presumably that's ten to 151000 bank. And he won 50000 that thousands and you would think he'd be happy but he was kicking himself because you'd literally played a tenth of what he normally if you played normal. You know he couldn't. Hadn't been incredibly huge you know life changing night. So. I mean it even happened a quiet levels were these guys are still having that that regret. The same one we're having over thirty dollars it's it's a strange world. Like any time you walk at a casino that's fire loser because he when you win and you think well the 600 dollars and one that's not enough I wanna win. 12100 and then by the time you leave your down 12100 so as long as player moderation to their Greg games and the journey that she went nine. Dueling with kings the book Daniel Marbury C I think is a fun read especially. If you are. If you are playing fantasy sports weather's just for fun or if you are looking to win money there's a whole other part of it that I think. Is surprising to people that you'd do a great job. Taking us through I still. I'm very skeptical that you can walk away from it though so if you are probably good that I'll be very impressed. Archival. Which you know I mean. Yeah it's gonna find out the hard way. That they're there yet the very hired away Daniel at such a pleasure to talk to you the book terrific. Make sure to give this is in front of as many guys as we can again doing with kings. Best of luck playing for however long you play. Thank you let her part appreciated look at what he's. If you go. Saw a lot to digest there are two really good conversations Brett smiley wanna thank him with sports handle. Dot com and Daniel barber EC the book is dueling with kings. Sports betting it's a reits or real business and it will only get bigger. As we go on I'm just happy that I panel lost a lot of the money and battled through the addiction. Before really gets impossible. To avoid the temptation when things podcast 1057 FM the fan.