Bart talks with someone: Daniel Barbarisi - Dueling with Kings

Bart Winkler
Wednesday, April 5th

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Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

On the intercom studios Daniels corners with stance and this is Bart talks to someone. Podcast to your host bark we clear. We are in the conversation business and I like to have conversations with people but with the way that he years' work in the way that. People have more time. We can't always compound 2030 minute conversations. On your morning commute. During chicken wing cooler mornings on the fan six to 10 AM but others conversations that. Could be had and I want to have that we wanna find some time for so new podcast. Is called mark talks to someone. And it's where I talked to someone. So today we attacked and Daniel barber EC Daniel barber EC was a yankees beat writer who then. Got into daily fantasy sports. And we'll talk about his adventure how he got into it and how he started to win. Add it specifically in a sport that he knew nothing about there was not baseball. Very interesting tale if if you're somebody who plays dailies fancy sports. He might give you any will in the book dueling with kings. Behind the scenes look at how this thing all works because. Not always. Is it sign up and play like you would with your buddies there's strategy. Behind a lot of this. There's a lot of people that. Don't. Play sports are no anything a bulk sports. That are. Quite frankly kicking your ass. In these daily fantasy sports whether it's really down to fan duel in the draft kings. As the two big ones of those two eventually emerge at some point but for now. They're separate. Done some stuff with fan you'll in the past. Eyes a disclaimer. I I used to handle a lot I used draft kings allowed to primarily I'd say go 82 point sandal draft kings. And they are not in any way of sponsorship of of this particular. Our podcasts or anything while they do run ads. On our station. I play at clay before I even knew that they would. You know spots or anything I I found out about these guys I thought it was cool I love fancy sports. And I love gambling in there is a risk of gambling to it. And we talk about that with Daniel barber EC on the book again dueling. With king so my conversation with him first dancer from Daniel is they got as low Roth did throwing its import I'd edited out but it's important. I two's back story and then I finally figure out how to use the equipment. And we go from there are so hope deal and listen to this it's about 25 minute interview. If you're playing fantasy sports you should know. Some of the stuff that goes on. Behind. Just throwing in five bucks into an entry in Daniel's book is there to do that. And we'll talk to him on the first edition of 1 I am currently calling. Our talks to someone the. His dueling with king's high stakes killer sharks and the get rich promise a daily fantasy sports Daniel barber EC. I joins us Danielle this book that a case of some dazzle get these books. Now say gallery this thing and I read. You know the back cover and then trying to stay married there and interviewed as somebody who has played did daily fancy sports since Canada right before the boom. Somebody who. Has been told many times this is the date cash out everything you have now this empires baiting and then you still putting fifty the next day. This is a gripping tale on sort of your Immersion. Into this thing and I sighted interest saying really because you started. I mean your beat writer for the Yankees for the longest time and that Daniels when you kind of that's when you discovered what this old daily fantasy sports world is about. I mean part I think you're your experience is actually ahead of the game most people's republic you'll have it might actually. Where you know I think many people just at a book than a standard. Harassing you with your body and playing awoke from the other courses here that of course. Injury doesn't fifteen were you me. A couple things seeing very dramatic that's what most people saw the advertising blitz that. Catapulted the company's tracking in scandal really international concert. As you noted I was well in order below journal. And I discovered it won't around any of that year and sit well it is during the super fun but be it's also created. It seems so big and I actually believe more people are kind of looking into this and talking about this so I decided. I'm gonna try to go into this thing until every other from the inside it seemed like you become one of the big perk that the terrible additionally what does. Yes I was still with these fish. All right so fish is basically. Well anybody that that I've set up a play these things you you play daily fancy sports the promise there. As we know is that you can be one of these. They winners now if you do it right. You can win a little bit of money. At the end of the day at the and your bank account you may be even you may be up a little bit in May have lost oh what happens is with any thing. There's people they gain to it and then there's people ahead of the curve so I may of I may have known about it but I was not. Ahead of the curve in terms of how to make this really a money making an operation because do you think can I wanna set a daily fantasy sports lineup. The understanding is just like with your other fantasy leagues you set the line up you know you're good at sports and you being as close as stewards of the Yankees in baseball. You think all right there's a lot of potential for me here. But what you learned and what you learn in the book and then. The way you track these people down is great to. That there are these formulas there are databases that are spread sheets there are systems that will enter in salaries for you and make necessary adjustments. So when you play your one line up. You play your one line of that you took twenty minutes to set you think that you're good to go. There's people that have been working the entire day with scripts setting all this stuff getting it ready and they're the ones winning the 101000 dollars. And you lose Tony box on the night and think well I guess I just didn't have the best lineup that night but it's because there's all these sharks which you you became. It wasn't that people were cheating but it was a bit. In their crushed here trying to destroy each other scripting and sandal. And it created a world where there were really no checks and balances and the while the best players. To a roughshod over people like you and me. And so I really didn't like that night I except I want it's there's been told a story in the Q did he even if at all possible to become one of these sharks without. In computer algorithms and without doing electronic stop so. I went and that you noted tricycle on them towards each teacher who live among the biggest and best of that world. And you know eventually I would be able. Ingratiate myself look we're we're able to be successful but you know I certainly wouldn't say that I had the average person's experience in the sense that. Doctor it's possible but I'd also ahead. Inherent advantages in terms of cool I was before this that allowed me to get the kind of mentoring tutelage bit you know most people are not going to be able yet. Raven and as you find out that might not even. Manner because I think like I am not a Sports Radio station and I'm a big sports fan. I covered these teams I can. Get the lions suffer everybody else some of these guys that played this stuff. This is purely a numbers thing they don't know how to pronounce these guys' names they don't know why and how what they look like they don't know if there why later of their black. Or of their reds veterans or their rookies but they know numbers. And when you see when you first learn that that's for sure going up against and those are the guys that are beating you. It's a very daunting. But yet I think people are learning that yet people aren't stopping because of Powell pack. How addicting really games like this czar. Yeah I mean there's no question that maybe it is a lot of fun it's very addictive but I certainly sounds very hard to pull yourself away from that you know there's a lot of gambling questions that come with that too. You know where people are actually getting addicted people or so and tons of money at it because the team that designed that way it it's a lot of fun there are Smart it's every. You know easy to get lost again. But everything digging themselves I took more than in the big I need initially we think this sport and sport militant gonna carry the day but though. To some degree I'm asking with a sports. And the two are no combined it is and those ourselves we couldn't put. At the start of it you know you have to understand things like game theory that Linear optimization and and went up correlation to really. Do any good at this and so you know whether it over time he became good at those concepts we can do those things under some of the best people teaching me but. You know that's not whatever one thinks it is they think it's only notable book on our show up and you're gonna win a thousand dollars and it's certainly not that. Daniel barber racing the book is dueling with kings. You do when you play draft kings are fan do all the two big ones. You see the same names but we in the same tournaments now they have since taken steps to they'll Shelley if this guy is. A veteran and or they'll show you but but I mean I have the little star next in my name I'm certainly not winning a ton of money on this thing. But you see those names and the way you're able to track down these guys are that was remarkable. Yelling immediately assumed one of the things I wanted to do was gonna pull the mask off some of this you know and say okay this is this person has this is how they do it. This is and they are in you know many people I talked to says oh you're gonna keep it out of sorts of absolutely not the point there is too. You know really try to tell the real story of what's going on your own children these guys really weren't yet in some work very hard to crack down some works. You bureaucracy some really liked the attention and someone had no part of it but. You know again I found them all to be almost momentary interest in people because. They're very Smart even the ones were a little bit more growth oriented shall we say are still Smart. You know these are this is a very army and the people who were the top with this thing. And you know if you're not Smart and practicing and playing pretty darn good methods are gonna have trouble here. And you know again that's not what you were so commercial at. They didn't let on to that but yeah in the when you talk with those experienced I think I insulin footwear. You know for infant seat that they get the best player in the world those titles soon Leno does accelerate. It is which is it actually sort in his own right in terms of how he actually took took other guys saying it's in the book. But even when I first. Dealt with it I mean he has the same experience that they need. Is light years Adams media and you never would also have that same ratings so. Well they are definitely better in terms of showing you hate this guys really get the cyclical and crush you. It's still a little bit deceptive in the I think it actually serves to highlight who the fish are not it. Our a lot of people's first Immersion which daily fantasy sports. Was the blitz. That the NFL season a couple of years ago out of in the the Tony's fifteen season where the commercials were on all the time I mean. You would look at a normal commercial break you would be draft kings motor oil fan dual. Fast food and in the same draft kings commercially just saw. And at that point people started think okay. Are right there is there's an interesting component to this in fact where's the money coming from how are they getting this much money. Is this stuff even legal the fight that draft kings and fan bill and these companies. Daily fantasy sports and had to gone through the state that you live didn't is shut it down and their states that you can't playing you have to. When you putting money you have to specify what state you're in and if you're in the wrong state you're not gonna get it and this is still an ongoing evolving. Legal matter from the fact that is it gambling or is it Matt. Yeah I mean that's that's sort of the big fight right now it's happening in the legislators state house across the country really at this moment. Because these companies you know after they did. End up at the target of all kinds of well deserved attention from the media and from regulatory agencies because that would ask those questions just mentioned. What is this where they come out of the get so big what the money on the but it is it all legal. Once they. You know be keen to become began to become subjects of all those inquiries. Became very clear there should be regulatory cultures too much money corporate they're relatively. It's it's very much like the idea he treating them all that book and they're very ugly rightly so when this wasn't that raised a lot of eyebrows. Right now I think the industry itself has the overall vote. A very very impressive lobbying effort actually they've gotten themselves explicitly legalize that of course it's you mentioned there were fortunate York. New York was the toughest battle and they were originally ended Bjorkman who managed to the bill passed. That legalize them explicitly. So now they're back in business error that was huge victory for media companies but. There's a lot of other states from Texas being for example where. You know that battles underway right now and so that's what they're trying to you know is actually get. Legislators across countries say OK we're OK with this thing. We think it should be legal but we want to make sure there are protections in place for the average player that you don't have the situation like what I found what you're talking about where. You know you're getting crushed by the same guy isn't aimed mainly not be using that if the goal so that's kind of where and how it's I think it's definitely in a better place. But that's mostly because of all the attention don't like shut down and be regulatory efforts and can be pretty good about themselves. Daniel barber EC dueling with king's I don't want to ruin much of the book as far as the stories and the friendships that you make. By the way we knew so users here in baseball here based on the brighter. And your playing based on games are playing football games. And I don't know why it struck me. As shocking as it dead but when you started talking about you are gonna start playing hockey in your not a hockey guy. But your wife covers hockey for you don't know much about back a year deeds is like a lot of people baseball football basketball. And then hockey just exist. Did you do your foray into hockey. Was like the end of the sixth sense to me out a lot of it desires and core I ice I I think audibly gasped when I first sign that you're in the book. Playing hockey. This is something in you became one of on the you know much about it but she found the formula of how to be successful. And dammit if I'm not gonna it's about not gonna put in my first tacky land tonight I would be lying to you guys and I wasn't. And I expect this fight going yeah and so what I've obviously as we discussed I was a baseball guy can only be successful but. I think actually hurt me because I came in a lot of preconceived assumptions and intrude much more knowledge and I wasn't able to YouTube. Who are literally have learned Shelley's and so to really start from blank blank slate to be good at this and so you know when I when my mentor Gagnon. It Judy rader was actually wonderful guy that you goes by the usually deep in the Jeep. She says the I'm gonna start you don't choose from scratch and hockey problem like that or easy that's in the book that didn't pay attention to our teachings and 94 link to I don't know anything about any. But yeah I thought it was good to and it turned out that it was because yes like it. Become very successful and lucky in the Pakistani people. The other day on Saturday won the Tennessee hockey championship of the world so clearly you actually it was certainly the right person to coat of bird by. But yeah that's what I mean I've become a huge hockey and directly as a result of and that's what the league are banking on that. If they partnered with these companies who really care about Vancouver San Jose name. At 1 AM on the West Coast finishing up where you're someone or Boston you don't would normally never mention that so I mean I am living proof of that stuff definitely happens. And that's what they're hoping for. Where you're watching airliner incident that late at night they color becomes slant when you slide out the line ads and and I was sweating with your tale of how much you're able to win playing hockey it was you know right there which he's a great job in the writing style of I'm keeping everybody engage again the book is doing with kings. Daniel barber EC what are you let the point now where this is your job or Walt what's your life like now how much are you doing this. I don't you play but no I definitely consider my job I mean nine. You know I consider myself storyteller and the whole idea it was I got the chance to tell really cool and crazy and amazing story here. And yes it would have been very interesting to do this along the way but that my ambition has never been to be at yet pressed Perot. So probably into the hockey season that'll. That approach the end for me be perfectly honest. There's an evil and I don't know if I believe that crap crap actually really nice that I'm done. There are illiterate but about my idol. I I can leg cashed out the other night is that like three bucks and that's fine NBA. You know overall I'm down but you have a night or UN a little Ben in your happy. And I I tell myself I'm not gonna play anymore and then I get a free entry. And then I think I really like this lineup. And okay output in ten dollars. As far as my friends now I'm. One of those few guys like that are still playing him but mine's very. I do one friend who he did have a big one not like like you guys have been able to him but he had a big enough wind. Where he's been able to play for awhile and what he'll do every night now I think he plays NBA alive. He'll do half internment and try to win big there. And you do a different line up for for the cash games so that he can win on the 5050s and keep going he's kind of got his method. And we all look at him like is he's a genius. But again compared to the the level of techniques and and the computer simulations through it's. I mean how much of that is still. Relevant where you can you can working nine to five right ending come home essential line up but you have to go against our guys that are setting. Scripps holidays that's happening a lot. I didn't the script verdict and it's not as big of a concern anymore but I certainly out there but not a big deal. It's more just didn't have yeah those guys to really really and what they're doing they're really practiced and you're actually I think it has been underrated part of it. Which is that. You're coming home and spending Europe in perhaps an elephant that lineup and another guy that worked on its mining camp. You know it's time is the biggest names of the pros have and they put all of their time intelligence into it. And everywhere else from showing up and saying we let's have a little fun and so you're almost playing a different game to some extent at this point I. Don't put in the lineups generally speaking unless I have formed by an hour to work out. And you know it means you're not doing that you may be setting yourself up for failure in the short term not doing so long. When you when you need four or five dollars. To dual line up as opposed it just thirty minutes. Without given I mean if you wanna whenever you wanna give away assignment. What do you do in that time consent there's people that I gave you talent if you wanna win you have to see you to do a five hour line up. And they might think well what am I looking for is five dollars a set this a person lineup that's it's I mean how long. Well it doesn't have to do but I just say I'm talking videotape for the final announcement. It is being that every game deserves rigorous analysis and you scenario that to be you know essentially tested I had my own in terms. That didn't theories that I employee you know I'm not in outlook over the course at all but I'd really like to go over. All the potential combination potential possibilities really try to bet the stack up on the curriculum around. You know I'm salary analysis matters the game is different every day it really get some extent the puzzle in the stratosphere that called out and so you know it. It's not it. There's a lot you can now that certainly he can take a lot of time you can really work hard at it and sometimes I feel like okay that didn't take that long and sometimes they'll feel like 0:7 o'clock it's agreed that our on this because. These games all for a lot of different statistical possibilities and I'm not really sure what it is what happened yet so. You know it's you can put as much time you want and a lot of times I would look at some of the animals that. Do you think overall. Lines daily fantasy sports is is good for sports is good for these games 'cause there's there's a lot of positives to it. I mean it gets more attention nine games and you might have people buying the MLB extra innings package to watch pod juries Mariner's. You know and they normally OneCare but there's also the point where. At Twitter is a big part of it. Yeah give people yelling and athletes. And I you can get athletes that are playing. You give people mad and made it their Mora looked at as commodities now than they are players of their favored sports teams. I think that don't work are currently pursuing just more people wanting. Things that didn't used to immediately gratify them to have direct connection that you know he would never. Walk of life at this point in this is the social media things eight. Technology related thing that we all expect. To having individual investment whatever the heck is going on in private as. We are not going to be passive consumers more and I think that's whether that's quarter that is so big your mind the mind are you but I think it's where we are. And I think beliefs certainly believe in that. The idea that. This is what they are going to keep people Bible on their screen typically used to be all about TV rights and you know you can contract settled and corporate earnings changeable that things are going different collections so they are now include about how can we just for this and so. I think that's more important in general is a big part of that and you're gonna he has moved probably I would say towards more European model in between years. Don't know exactly how that's going to shake out yet but I think what will bear so. You know in terms of the they're good or bad habit I simply just say that when he is. That is am a government there are trying to make money off of it while you can. So for a normal guy like me. The attacking you for Tony minutes or so normal guy like me. I'm gonna go home the night Allen a place online announced. Am dessert. I get discouraged though because I I don't have the time I don't have. The methods that you and deep in a Jeep and all these guys have. Ken normal people. Like me. That play can you win. The 101000 dollars K and you win the 100000. Dollars continued can you do that. Without taking the route of being a shark. Like you had to do great to water write a book about something and then for profit off that as well that that aren't great Korea. They're ticket can get a guy like me go home and win money or do I had to take your route. Of canyon yes and do I think you're going to tonight no. And that's no insult your intelligence but I mean it's certainly possible but you know I think what the settlement the 15% of people win. No that's well ordered at this point it's better what he used it. But you know it. Look at you're going into the community as well I think you do look at which is injured England. And supplements to keep you more engaged in the games are probably you're gonna watch wonderful he should do it like that. You're going they're thinking I'm gonna prop up this every day and make a lot of money and this is going to be my new career. I would tell you stick your data because unless you're gonna take an incredibly super seriously. You know the idea is that yes you can hit you can get lucky you can never really could line up in Atlanta California but if it's pretty hard to be consistently profitable and not putting the real time and a real effort on the orders that sort of you know. Yeah it actually is possible that which can be done by you know people need to recognize him as one of the things that made me at the beginning. The commercials and otherwise people need to recognize it's very hard and it takes a lot you're not just a show up. It doesn't work. Our man Danny at two Summers ago. I Wear two different jobs of an hour apart so I drive don't whine and then I'd drive to the next on and in that hour. If you are all so I handle credit card debt at the time. To see that earned the right time to be doing this so I'm driving down. And on that the drive a mom iPhone and I'm playing the Tony seven dollar MLB. Draft canes and I'm just spending money and spending money. We're NN now I think is much better I'll play. You know the five the single entry 32 I'll play fifteen dollars and nine and and and pass on and enjoy but not get too crazy but is very easy. To fall into that trap. We ask that that experience I mean what you just described iPad that you would see in those settings lineups on a dry it and be like oh well. While the students the while they only have a in the street all right should put it in the 27 and Russell spoke expelled. Expect that I put in the Pitney so you know it's it's starts to snowball from there. And then you and you only had put it in the three. And that you're like I should've won five grand sat in the next day I'm chasing that money that I never had that there's a lot of that chase to. I mean they're even not even happen with professional I would out in Miami this weekend with several these guys and I would actually lose. Sunday night. And one of the big pros was which we are dinner and eat. Get taken lightly and keep putting thousand dollars was obviously a lot of money but for him we normally that's ten to 151000 day it was not. And he won 50000 opt out and and you would think he'd be happy but he was kicking himself because you'd literally played a tenth of what he normally if you played normal. You know he couldn't. I hadn't been incredibly huge you know life changing night. So. I mean even happened at the highest levels were these guys are still having met that regret. The same one that we're having over thirty dollars it's it's a string of world. That like any time you walk at a casino that's higher loser because he when you win and you think well the 600 dollars and one that's not enough I wanna win. 12100 and then by the time you leave your down 12100 so as long as claim moderation to their Greg games and the journey that she went nine. Dueling with kings the book Daniel barber EC I think is a fund read especially. If you are. If you are playing fantasy sports weather's just for fun or if you are looking to win money there's a whole another part of it that I think. Is surprising to people that you'd do a great job. Taking us through I still. I'm very skeptical that you can walk away from it though so if you were able to do that I'll be very impressed. Archival and I have to let you know I mean them. Yeah it's gonna find out the hard way. Could that they're there yet the very hired away Daniel as such a pleasure to talk to you the book terrific. Make sure to give this is in front of as many guys as we can again doing with kings. Best of luck playing for however long you play. I give it requires appreciated look at what he's human yup you know. And I are things to Daniel barber racing the book is dueling with kings. Available wherever books are sold thanks for listening to the podcast Bartok to someone can do this is many times they can taking. Things outside of the normal radio six attend Forman and talking to some people that. It would be worthy to have longer conversations. Where if he did finish please share the podcast. Award every can do on Twitter FaceBook here. But tell me that you like if you finish did reach me on Twitter. That links thinks is Mike Turner kind of appreciate your follow volume back apple links thanks. That wing things and send me direct message that tells me like program or at least listen to. Rated out of one out of five stars I just wanna know that this is a a tangible thing. People are listening to because I did you find out listening to the program are listening to these podcasts. I am wildly insecure. It's borrowing Blair Bartok is somebody.
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